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We Care a Lot - De File
Does Collecting Make You Feel Dirty?
cbertsch
cbertsch
We Care a Lot
Today is the San Francisco Giants' last game of the year in whatever they're calling their ballpark these days and therefore the last time that Barry Bonds will wear their home uniform. There are many people who will tell you that the team and its fans have moved on. But they speak from a place of ignorance. It means a great deal to those who have followed the Giants for the past decade and a half, so much so that the prospect of him sitting the contest out with the injury that has kept him out of the lineup the past two weeks was unbearable. He started the game, though. I wish I could be there to join in the goodbye cheers.

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susandennis From: susandennis Date: September 27th, 2007 01:00 am (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
I'm so glad he go to play. He's certainly been a class act recently (and before but really recently, he's taken the high road and it's been impressive). I wish him so much best.
cbertsch From: cbertsch Date: September 27th, 2007 01:28 am (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
Well, he might show up in Seattle next year. It's possible. He can certainly still hit. I imagine that playing DH would revive his legs a bit.
susandennis From: susandennis Date: September 27th, 2007 01:35 am (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
I'd be happy to have him.
cbertsch From: cbertsch Date: September 27th, 2007 01:38 am (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
Who leads the Mariners' ownership group? That could be the determining factor.
masoo From: masoo Date: September 27th, 2007 02:39 am (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
Here's what Nate Silver said over at BP:

The most fundamental problem is that the Mariners have no vacancy for Bonds. At left field, they have Raul Ibanez, who is under contract for 2008. Same with Jose Vidro at DH. Right field is arguably a possibility, but the $9.0 million option the Mariners have on Jose Guillen will quite possibly get picked up, and if it does not you’d figure that the heir apparent is Adam Jones. And if you’d want to get creative and put Bonds at first base, Richie Sexson still has another year on his contract there.

The Mariners also have a fairly strong brand that leans toward the cute-and-cuddly side; can you imagine Bonds and Ichiro Suzuki co-existing on the same team? And they have a GM that is not particularly known for his propensity to take risks, nor for his appreciation of on-base percentage, which is Bonds’ primary strength at this point.
cbertsch From: cbertsch Date: September 27th, 2007 03:00 am (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
DH?
masoo From: masoo Date: September 27th, 2007 03:11 am (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
As Silver noted, they have Jose Vidro signed up for DH in 2008. Vidro's a lifetime .300 hitter, and they've got former all-star Jose Lopez at Vidro's primary defensive position (Lopez can't hit but he's young).
cbertsch From: cbertsch Date: September 27th, 2007 10:08 am (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
But what about "power" numbers? I'd read that the Mariners were looking to get more slugging.
masoo From: masoo Date: September 27th, 2007 10:46 am (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
As I read it, the author's point was that, whatever the Mariners are looking for, the positions Barry might play are already taken through at least 2008.
cbertsch From: cbertsch Date: September 27th, 2007 11:08 am (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
Well, from the standpoint of logic. But logic doesn't always drive decision-making, as Tom Hicks may well demonstrate once more.
masoo From: masoo Date: September 27th, 2007 12:24 pm (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
I don't think you're actually reading what Silver said. You're looking at points that he addressed in the excerpt I posted. Whether or not he's accurate in his take is one thing, but when he says they've got a DH locked up until 2008, the question becomes "is that a good idea and/or will they change their mind," not "how about the DH spot," which he has already answered. When he spends a paragraph talking about the general characteristics of the GM, noting the areas where logic won't necessarily prevail (mentioning how the M's are marketed, how risk-averse they are, and how their understanding of what a Barry Bonds can bring to the game are flawed), it doesn't make sense to say that Silver is arguing from the standpoint of logic. Or rather, he's being logical, but he's taking possible illogical behavior by the Mariners into account.

I thought Silver was pretty clear. Like I say, his assessment may be wrong, but he's addressed both of your questions already.
cbertsch From: cbertsch Date: September 27th, 2007 12:29 pm (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
Oh, I read it, Steven. I was just imagining other ways of thinking about it. You understand that, right? I mean, however great the Baseball Prospectus people are, they aren't always 100% accurate in their assessments of the mindset of others. No matter how informed an opinion is, it's still an opinion.
masoo From: masoo Date: September 27th, 2007 12:36 pm (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
You've really got me scratching my head over this one. I'm not saying you shouldn't question Silver's argument, or that Silver is right, although he makes sense to me. I'm saying your counterargument doesn't seem useful. He says X, you say what about X. He's already said X, the question is whether or not he's right about X. It's as if he said 2+2=5, and instead of pointing out that 2+2=4, you say "but what about 2+2?"
cbertsch From: cbertsch Date: September 27th, 2007 02:03 pm (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
In the immortal words of Barry Bonds, "Whatever, dude." I should know better than to attempt to converse with you on topics of this nature. Because, to be perfectly honest, I have no idea why you thought that my question meant I hadn't read Silver's piece or, now, why you think it makes no sense to consider a possibility he rules out. I mean, that's the nature of idle speculation to speculate idly. Maybe the problem is that I used the word "logic," a category from which my irrational exuberance bars me.
cbertsch From: cbertsch Date: September 27th, 2007 12:31 pm (UTC) (LINK TO SPECIFIC ENTRY)
I mean, it's not like Brian Sabean has ever worried much about whether he's signing players he doesn't need to sign. As you've pointed out, if there's some long-in-the-tooth retread out there who he believes will provide "leadership" and "maturity," he'll have the checkbook out faster than you can say, "Joe Carter."
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